Late Night Open Thread: Snippets Concerning Ukraine

Not a whole lot of daylight between Kissinger and Chomsky these days.

Great roundup! Thanks. I wonder where that diplomat is now….maybe there is a spare room at one of the Vindman’s.

War criminal Kissinger stanning for war criminal Putin.

@Rich2506

Excellent stuff. I like the “Warmest Regards” at the end.

I hate when people are more committed to their paradigm than reality.

What happened to Adam, where did he go? Miss him.

Most people weren’t alive when Kissinger was SoS and they think he has the hot take.

@ Rich2506:

Similarly, the Kiev Independent responded to the NYT’s editorial about compromising:

https://kyivindependent.com/opinion/editorial-the-kyiv-independents-response-to-the-new-york-times-editorial-board/

Projection on the nuclear front.

Putin is a bad faith actor and shit weasel.

Putinists have always assumed Ukraine lied about non-proliferation. Because that’s what they would do.

They’re afraid Moscow will get hit if they go full on stoopid.

Of course Zelenskyy doesn’t want to talk to any one else but Putin. Putin sees Ukraine as a vassal state at best, and vassals don’t get to talk to the top boss on an equal footing.

Out of curiosity, historically speaking, has offering appeasement to someone like Putin ever led to long-term stability? In my (admittedly limited) knowledge, I don’t think it ever has. It simply emboldened the aggressor to move on to the next target.

I’m also puzzled by the insistence on the part of some that Russia cannot be defeated. If we’re talking about seeing Ukrainian troops marching into Moscow, that’s certainly true. But if we’re talking about the removal of Russian troops from occupied territories in Ukraine, the evidence to date suggests that Russia is most definitely beatable. And that it would be in the best interest of Ukraine, Europe, and indeed the rest of the world if it were to be defeated.

I’m struggling to understand the view that we should stop supporting Ukraine and force it to hand over a substantial part of its territory to Russia. The bad-faith actors I get and can easily ignore but some of this is coming from people I would normally be listening to. What am I missing?

PaulB:

“Out of curiosity, historically speaking, has offering appeasement to someone like Putin ever led to long-term stability? In my (admittedly limited) knowledge, I don’t think it ever has. It simply emboldened the aggressor to move on to the next target.”

I can’t speak for all of history, but Putin has already shown that appeasing him will not work. He has de facto control of Crimea, after invading in 2014, and now he wants Eastern Ukraine.

Plus, Putin has already made plain his desire to takeover all of Ukraine. As soon he has full control of Luhansk and Donetsk, he’ll use them as staging grounds to push westward, further into Ukraine.

Appeasement is completely useless under these circumstances, and the Russian government, as currently constituted, cannot be trusted to abide by any agreement or treaty.